President Trump Is Going to Win in 2020 and Make You People Cry All Over Again

Video by Renee Klahr, John Poole and Nick Michael | NPR / YouTube

Some Republican leaders are trying to move on from former President Donald Trump's failed attempt to overturn the 2020 ballot that he lost.

"While in that location were some irregularities, there were none of the irregularities which would have risen to the bespeak where they would accept inverse the vote outcome in a single land," Sen. Mike Rounds, R-South.D., said Sunday on ABC'southward This Week. "The election was fair, equally fair as we have seen. We simply did not win the ballot, every bit Republicans, for the presidency. And if we simply wait back and tell our people don't vote because there's cheating going on, so we're going to put ourselves in a huge disadvantage."

Just Trump — who has endorsed dozens of candidates for the 2022 midterm elections and still holds past far the widest influence within the GOP — is trying hard not to let them movement on.

"No, I recollect it's an advantage, because otherwise they're going to do it again in '22 and '24, and Rounds is incorrect on that. Totally incorrect," Trump told NPR in an interview Tuesday, referring to his faux and debunked claims that the 2020 election was stolen.

The interview was six years in the making. Trump and his team accept repeatedly declined interviews with NPR until Tuesday, when he chosen in from his dwelling house in Florida. Information technology was scheduled for fifteen minutes, but lasted but over nine.

After existence pressed about his repeated lies about the 2020 presidential election, Trump abruptly ended the interview.

Trump'southward mixed messages on getting vaccinated

The interview began with the pandemic and vaccinations.

Trump, whose administration oversaw the development of the COVID-nineteen vaccines, recommended that people get vaccinated only said he's firmly confronting mandating that they practise so.

"[T]he mandate is actually hurting our country," Trump claimed, calculation, "A lot of Americans aren't standing for it, and it'south hurting our state."

He continued, "The vaccines, I recommend taking them, merely I think that has to be an private choice. I hateful, it's got to exist individual, just I recommend taking them."

The opposition to mandates is popular with Republicans, and the Supreme Court is currently weighing the Biden administration's vaccine-or-test mandate for large employers. But his comments come during the tape omicron surge, as the unvaccinated are far more probable to exist hospitalized or die from the illness, and every bit Republicans are far more likely to be unvaccinated.

Epidemiologists and wellness experts warn that if more people don't get vaccinated and the virus continues to morph, it could prolong the pandemic — and delay whatsoever sense of getting dorsum to normal.

The former president said he wants to meet therapeutics, used to care for the virus later someone is infected, produced and distributed more widely.

Trump's firm grip on the Republican Party, only tenuous grasp on reality

Trump is non merely any former president.

Even many members of his ain party have blamed him for inciting the deadly Jan. six coup at the U.Southward. Capitol, only since then Trump has only tightened his grip on the GOP.

He remains one of the most popular figures in the Republican Party and is considered the front-runner for the 2024 presidential nomination, if he decides to run once more.

When he ran in 2016, Trump was seen equally having a shoestring campaign, fighting an uphill battle with few allies amid Republican elected leaders.

Today, it'south a unlike story. Trump'south political organization has become a juggernaut. Not only are most Republican elected leaders falling in line, but he has also installed allies decision-making many levers of political power beyond the country. In state afterwards state, Trump allies are running local Republican parties, serving every bit state representatives and in charge of political action committees.

It's a political army gear up to be mobilized at his beck and call. What he says — what his message is to them — matters because they follow.

To secure his power, he will do any he can to bandage aside those who don't prove fealty. That includes threats, bullying and intimidation, like badgering and name-calling.

Referring to Southward Dakota's Rounds in a argument subsequently he appeared on ABC, for case, Trump said Rounds "just went woke," called him a "jerk," "weak," "ineffective" and questioned whether he was "crazy or only stupid."

He as well chosen him a RINO, an acronym for an insult some conservatives reserve for more than moderate Republicans they disagree with — Republicans in proper name only.

In the interview with NPR, he partially blamed Senate Republican leader Mitch McConnell for Rounds and other senators feeling as though they can speak out and say — correctly — that Trump lost the election.

"Because Mitch McConnell is a loser," Trump said.

Trump has called McConnell worse — and all considering the Kentucky Republican has crossed Trump, blaming him for the insurrection on Jan. half dozen and proverb President Biden won, fifty-fifty if McConnell doesn't do then forcefully every day.

Information technology's par for the course for Trump, who has demanded unflinching loyalty — and who chafes at truths he disagrees with, especially about him losing.

Trump has blasted Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell, all because the Kentucky Republican has crossed the former president. Chip Somodevilla/Getty Images hide explanation

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Chip Somodevilla/Getty Images

Won't accept losing an election he lost

Many Republicans adopt to focus on Biden as this year'southward congressional elections approach. Trump is pressing candidates in a different direction.

Josh Mandel, a pro-Trump Republican from Ohio, launched his campaign for U.S. Senate just weeks later Trump supporters attacked the U.Southward. Capitol last yr.

"I think over time we're gonna see studies come out that [show] prove of widespread fraud," Mandel, a onetime state treasurer who is angling for Trump'southward endorsement, told WKYC-TV.

In the year since Mandel made that prediction, the contrary has happened.

Even more testify shows a free and fair election.

In one disputed state, Arizona, Trump allies held a widely criticized review of millions of ballots, but even Doug Logan, who led Cyber Ninjas, the business firm that ran the review, couldn't notice much.

"The ballots that were provided to us to count in the Coliseum very accurately correlate with the official canvass numbers," Logan said.

As he does with whatever information or person he doesn't like or disagrees with, Trump dismissed the findings in the NPR interview.

"Lying or delusional"

In the interview, Trump repeated a number of imitation claims well-nigh voting systems in the U.S., including that the discredited GOP-led ballot review in Arizona showed bear witness of malfeasance — despite the fact that it likewise reaffirmed Biden'southward victory.

Republican officials in Maricopa County, however, debunked the characterizations of Trump and his allies in a 93-page rebuttal issued concluding week.

"The people who have spent the last year proclaiming our free and fair elections are rigged are lying or delusional," said Bill Gates, the GOP chair of the Maricopa Canton Board of Supervisors.

Asked why fifty-fifty Republicans in the state accepted the findings, Trump reverted to an old attack.

"Considering they're RINOs," he said, "and frankly, a lot of people are questioning that."

Tammy Patrick, a former Maricopa County election official and at present an elections skillful at Democracy Fund, was presented by NPR with a number of Trump's claims about voting and noted that in the 14 months since the election, no proof of any of his claims has come up to lite.

"It hasn't been presented in any of the courts. It hasn't been surfaced in any official election audits, not past the Section of Justice, not by the FBI," Patrick said. "Allegations of fraud swivel upon being able to produce bodily instances of fraud — not only thoughts, feelings or beliefs about it."

To Republicans who know how elections work, the election has always been obvious.

"The facts testify that it was President Biden who won fair and foursquare," said Trey Grayson, who used to run elections as the Republican secretary of land in Kentucky. "Information technology wasn't rigged."

He's thinking about those Republican T-shirts that said, "F*** your feelings."

"And hither we are looking at the 2020 election," Grayson said, "and we are the ones who are basing information technology on feelings, not on facts, not on the constabulary."

The Pennsylvania example

Virtually Republican voters at present say they experience the election was stolen, co-ordinate to surveys. That gives Trump leverage with Republican candidates who desire to win primaries this twelvemonth.

In Pennsylvania, numerous Republicans are running for governor and senator. They've made lots of moves to show their fealty to the former president. One candidate for governor is Bill McSwain, who happened to exist a U.S. attorney during the 2020 election.

Quondam U.Southward. Attorney Bill McSwain, a Republican running for Pennsylvania governor, has appealed for Trump's support. Matt Rourke/AP hibernate caption

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Matt Rourke/AP

"Bill McSwain left part without announcing any investigations or issue of investigations for the 2020 ballot in the Eastern District of Pennsylvania," said Chris Brennan of the Philadelphia Inquirer, who has covered his story.

Just then McSwain prepared to run for office. Last summer, he produced a letter for Trump, appealing for his back up — and implying that he was blocked somehow from investigating unspecified claims of fraud.

"But information technology doesn't really say that," Brennan said. "So fifty-fifty he, when you carefully read it, does not claim that he was blocked from investigating fraud."

Trump even so made the letter of the alphabet public and gave his own interpretation at multiple rallies.

"Nosotros have a U.South. attorney in Philadelphia that says he wasn't immune to go and cheque," Trump said at a rally in Florida.

Grayson has watched similar stories unfold in multiple states.

"I think he'southward been really active in moving 2022 candidates toward his point of view," Grayson said. "The way I await at it is, I can't imagine that the political party on its own would exist pushing this narrative if he weren't pushing it."

Repeatedly in the interview, Trump presses his party to attach to his signal of view and imitation claims, and he adapts his arguments to account for more and more proof that he lost. That's a typical strategy among purveyors of disinformation and misinformation.

Trump did correctly note in the interview that he received more votes than whatever sitting president ever. But his broader point that that is somehow bear witness that he won in 2020 is nonsensical, said Patrick, seeing as the ballot saw record turnout.

"Each ballot compares those candidates facing off in that election — information technology doesn't matter how the numbers compare to the final election," Patrick said. "It doesn't matter how many points a squad scored the last game or how many times Alabama has won the national championship. What matters is who has the most points or votes at the end of the game."

For the record, the University of Georgia won the college football national title Monday, defeating Alabama, 33-18. And Biden got seven million more votes than Trump in the popular vote in 2020 and got 306 electoral votes to Trump's 232.

Repeated losses in the independent judiciary

Trump doesn't have a case of widespread fraud.

He and his lawyers tried to testify that he did — and they failed. Many judges, including some appointed past him, ruled that manner in dozens of cases.

Here'south a section of the interview on this:

NPR'S STEVE INSKEEP: Let me read you some short quotes. The first is by one of the judges, one of the 10 judges you appointed, who ruled on this. And in that location were many judges, simply 10 who y'all appointed. Brett Ludwig, U.South. Commune Court in Wisconsin, who was nominated by you in 2020. He'south on the demote and he says, quote, "This court allowed the plaintiff the run a risk to make his case, and he has lost on the merits."

Another quote, Kory Langhofer, your ain campaign attorney in Arizona, Nov. 12, 2020, quote, "Nosotros are not alleging fraud in this lawsuit. We are not alleging anyone stealing the election." And also Rudy Giuliani, your lawyer, Nov. 18, 2020, in Pennsylvania, quote, "This is non a fraud case." Your own lawyers had no evidence of fraud. They said in court they had no evidence of fraud. And the judges ruled against you every time on the merits.

TRUMP: It was too early to ask for fraud and to talk about fraud. Rudy said that, considering of the fact information technology was very early with the — considering that was obviously at a very, very — that was a long time ago. The things that have constitute out accept more than bore out what people thought and what people felt and what people found.

When you await at Langhofer, I disagree with him as an attorney. I did not retrieve he was a adept chaser to hire. I don't know what his game is, but I will but say this: You await at the findings. You look at the number of votes. Go into Detroit and just ask yourself, is information technology true that at that place are more votes than there are voters? Await at Pennsylvania. Expect at Philadelphia. Is it true that there were far more votes than there were voters?

INSKEEP: It is non true that at that place were far more votes than voters. At that place was an early count. I've noticed you lot've talked about this in rallies and you've said, reportedly, this is true. I think even you know that that was an early report that was corrected subsequently.

TRUMP: Well, you lot take a wait at information technology. You lot accept a look at Detroit. In fact, they even had a difficult fourth dimension getting people to sign off on information technology because it was so out of balance. They called it out of balance. Then you take a await at information technology. You know the real truth, Steve, and this election was a rigged election.

When pressed, information technology was excuse after excuse — it was "too early on" to claim fraud, his chaser was no good, things just seem suspicious.

Only it all comes dorsum to the same place: He has no evidence of widespread fraud that acquired him to lose the ballot.

The tone of the interview changed. Trump and then hurried off the phone equally he was starting to exist asked about the attack on the Capitol, inspired by election lies.

A judge is considering whether Trump can exist held liable for his actions in courtroom.

If he can be, then Trump or his lawyers would anytime have to reply the questions he didn't respond earlier he cut short his conversation with NPR.

Audio for this story was produced and edited past Taylor Haney, Lilly Quiroz, Amra Pasic and H.J. Mai.

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Source: https://www.npr.org/2022/01/12/1072204478/donald-trump-npr-interview-presidential-election-lies-vaccines

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